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	<title>Comments for Aporia</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?feed=comments-rss2" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog</link>
	<description>John Carter McKnight’s Mostly Academic Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:56:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on HAPPY SUMMER FUNTIME by Kaseido</title>
		<link>http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1775&#038;cpage=1#comment-923</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaseido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1775#comment-923</guid>
		<description>Fleep, thanks so much!  The encouragement is great, and means a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fleep, thanks so much!  The encouragement is great, and means a lot.</p>
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		<title>Comment on HAPPY SUMMER FUNTIME by Fleep Tuque</title>
		<link>http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1775&#038;cpage=1#comment-922</link>
		<dc:creator>Fleep Tuque</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1775#comment-922</guid>
		<description>Hooray for a good plan!  I love reading your various game world missives, but I&#039;ll love reading your dissertation even more, so just wanted to send some encouraging happy fun time vibes your way.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hooray for a good plan!  I love reading your various game world missives, but I&#8217;ll love reading your dissertation even more, so just wanted to send some encouraging happy fun time vibes your way.  <img src='http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on HAPPY SUMMER FUNTIME by Kaseido</title>
		<link>http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1775&#038;cpage=1#comment-918</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaseido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 20:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1775#comment-918</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Kyt!

I haven&#039;t had much time in STO the past month, but I&#039;m still in the middle of the Cardassian season, so lots of narrative content left, plus I want to do more pugging and fleet actions - did my first Borg invasion the other night, and it rocked. 

There&#039;s definitely great work to be done on the &lt;em&gt;Mass Effect&lt;/em&gt; reaction: I think it&#039;s going to lead to changes in game storytelling we can&#039;t even imagine yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Kyt!</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t had much time in STO the past month, but I&#8217;m still in the middle of the Cardassian season, so lots of narrative content left, plus I want to do more pugging and fleet actions &#8211; did my first Borg invasion the other night, and it rocked. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s definitely great work to be done on the <em>Mass Effect</em> reaction: I think it&#8217;s going to lead to changes in game storytelling we can&#8217;t even imagine yet.</p>
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		<title>Comment on HAPPY SUMMER FUNTIME by Kyt Dotson</title>
		<link>http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1775&#038;cpage=1#comment-917</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyt Dotson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 20:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1775#comment-917</guid>
		<description>Good luck on the upcoming summer months, it&#039;s always a bit of a limbo for people tied up in academia.

I&#039;m still enjoying running around in &lt;em&gt;Star Trek Online&lt;/em&gt;. The amount of episodic content available is stunningly wonderful -- especially that they&#039;re tapping into the Foundry.

On &lt;em&gt;Mass Effect&lt;/em&gt;: I am currently trying to pitch an article to one of my magazine venues to do a literary review of why gamer culture unilaterally rejected the ending of ME3 even though the entire trilogy is greatly beloved. It&#039;s an amazing game series and I loved playing through all of it. In fact, it ate an entire week for me.

Good luck on prepping for that dissertation, don&#039;t fry too many brain cells.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good luck on the upcoming summer months, it&#8217;s always a bit of a limbo for people tied up in academia.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still enjoying running around in <em>Star Trek Online</em>. The amount of episodic content available is stunningly wonderful &#8212; especially that they&#8217;re tapping into the Foundry.</p>
<p>On <em>Mass Effect</em>: I am currently trying to pitch an article to one of my magazine venues to do a literary review of why gamer culture unilaterally rejected the ending of ME3 even though the entire trilogy is greatly beloved. It&#8217;s an amazing game series and I loved playing through all of it. In fact, it ate an entire week for me.</p>
<p>Good luck on prepping for that dissertation, don&#8217;t fry too many brain cells.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Kaseido by Melissa Yeuxdoux</title>
		<link>http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1761&#038;cpage=1#comment-908</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa Yeuxdoux</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Apr 2012 10:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1761#comment-908</guid>
		<description>Wonderful news! I look forward to reading _The Spacefaring Web_.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful news! I look forward to reading _The Spacefaring Web_.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Spathic Files: Article Draft by Kaseido</title>
		<link>http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1749&#038;cpage=1#comment-904</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaseido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Apr 2012 02:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1749#comment-904</guid>
		<description>Maggie, believe me, I know about time!  No worries, I&#039;ll keep posting as things move along :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maggie, believe me, I know about time!  No worries, I&#8217;ll keep posting as things move along <img src='http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on The Spathic Files: Article Draft by Maggie Bluxome</title>
		<link>http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1749&#038;cpage=1#comment-903</link>
		<dc:creator>Maggie Bluxome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Apr 2012 02:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1749#comment-903</guid>
		<description>If I had more free time, I would love to see your draft. I fear I wouldn&#039;t be able to get too far in to it so soon. This is interesting to see, though, and my curiosity is piqued. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I had more free time, I would love to see your draft. I fear I wouldn&#8217;t be able to get too far in to it so soon. This is interesting to see, though, and my curiosity is piqued. <img src='http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Mittens and the Magic Circle by Sheol</title>
		<link>http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1720&#038;cpage=1#comment-902</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2012 21:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1720#comment-902</guid>
		<description>As a disclaimer, I play Eve Online, and I play in Test Alliance Please Ignore, which is closely associated with Goonswarm both in game politics and community culture. What The Mittani did was stupid and  insensitive, practically no one that has given it real thought is defending his actions. Those who are, are simply defending their own in the face of outside attacks.

In my understanding the whole article argues against the notion that people ought to act differently in online interactions than they do in &quot;real life&quot; interactions. You claim, &quot;if it’s wrong on the street, it’s wrong on the internet.&quot; It seems to me that dismisses the fact that even in the real world people have different personalities in different social contexts. What is wrong on the street may not be wrong in a group of close friends. What is right on the street may not be right at a business dinner. I act differently online than I do in the real world, but I also act differently when I&#039;m with my girlfriend than when I&#039;m out with some friends. People&#039;s actions are always shaped by the context they take place in.

Additionally, you say that &quot;the world turns inside out: the circle jerks would see game rules (primarily emergent social norms rather than Monopoly-like rules) trump real world rules*.&quot; I disagree with this statement. Excuse me if I&#039;m misinterpreting your statement, but no one makes the claim that how we act in game ought to be how we act outside of the game, that is &quot;fucking nuts.&quot; People simply make the claim that how we act inside the game is distinct from how we act outside the game, and never the two shall meet. The problem that arose with The Mittani&#039;s statements at Fanfest is that it was a odd confluence of the game world with the real world, there was Alex on-stage making statements as if he was The Mittani, which got him into trouble. He brought the in game rules into real life and is facing consequences of that. An interesting example of this has been that a joke has arisen where players are saying &quot;Kill yourself... in game, of course&quot; recognizing that there is such a distinction. Additionally, you see the distinction arise in the way that Mittani has reacted to the media coverage, he has taken issue with the gaming media&#039;s use of the term cyberbully and the publishing of his full real name, clearly showing that he believes there is a distinction between the asshole The Mittani and the mild mannered retired lawyer, Alexander. 

What&#039;s incredibly interesting about Fanfest is that it brings all these people who have built relationships based on in game politics and actions and places them in a &quot;real life&quot; conversation. You see plenty of interesting results from this. For example, one that involves the Mittani, is that for the past couple years Pandemic Legion and Goonswarm have been bitter enemies after a diplomatic break a few years ago, Mittani spend a good deal of Fanfest hanging out with some of the members of Pandemic Legion and now there are rumors that they may be deploying with Goonswarm on a joint venture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a disclaimer, I play Eve Online, and I play in Test Alliance Please Ignore, which is closely associated with Goonswarm both in game politics and community culture. What The Mittani did was stupid and  insensitive, practically no one that has given it real thought is defending his actions. Those who are, are simply defending their own in the face of outside attacks.</p>
<p>In my understanding the whole article argues against the notion that people ought to act differently in online interactions than they do in &#8220;real life&#8221; interactions. You claim, &#8220;if it’s wrong on the street, it’s wrong on the internet.&#8221; It seems to me that dismisses the fact that even in the real world people have different personalities in different social contexts. What is wrong on the street may not be wrong in a group of close friends. What is right on the street may not be right at a business dinner. I act differently online than I do in the real world, but I also act differently when I&#8217;m with my girlfriend than when I&#8217;m out with some friends. People&#8217;s actions are always shaped by the context they take place in.</p>
<p>Additionally, you say that &#8220;the world turns inside out: the circle jerks would see game rules (primarily emergent social norms rather than Monopoly-like rules) trump real world rules*.&#8221; I disagree with this statement. Excuse me if I&#8217;m misinterpreting your statement, but no one makes the claim that how we act in game ought to be how we act outside of the game, that is &#8220;fucking nuts.&#8221; People simply make the claim that how we act inside the game is distinct from how we act outside the game, and never the two shall meet. The problem that arose with The Mittani&#8217;s statements at Fanfest is that it was a odd confluence of the game world with the real world, there was Alex on-stage making statements as if he was The Mittani, which got him into trouble. He brought the in game rules into real life and is facing consequences of that. An interesting example of this has been that a joke has arisen where players are saying &#8220;Kill yourself&#8230; in game, of course&#8221; recognizing that there is such a distinction. Additionally, you see the distinction arise in the way that Mittani has reacted to the media coverage, he has taken issue with the gaming media&#8217;s use of the term cyberbully and the publishing of his full real name, clearly showing that he believes there is a distinction between the asshole The Mittani and the mild mannered retired lawyer, Alexander. </p>
<p>What&#8217;s incredibly interesting about Fanfest is that it brings all these people who have built relationships based on in game politics and actions and places them in a &#8220;real life&#8221; conversation. You see plenty of interesting results from this. For example, one that involves the Mittani, is that for the past couple years Pandemic Legion and Goonswarm have been bitter enemies after a diplomatic break a few years ago, Mittani spend a good deal of Fanfest hanging out with some of the members of Pandemic Legion and now there are rumors that they may be deploying with Goonswarm on a joint venture.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mittens and the Magic Circle by Kaseido</title>
		<link>http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1720&#038;cpage=1#comment-898</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaseido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2012 01:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1720#comment-898</guid>
		<description>Liang: Thanks for the link and the info about the twitter thread. Anything you can dig up or screenshot I&#039;d love to see - you can send it to john dot mcknight at asu dot edu, or just post it here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liang: Thanks for the link and the info about the twitter thread. Anything you can dig up or screenshot I&#8217;d love to see &#8211; you can send it to john dot mcknight at asu dot edu, or just post it here.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mittens and the Magic Circle by Kaseido</title>
		<link>http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1720&#038;cpage=1#comment-897</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaseido</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2012 01:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johncartermcknight.com/blog/?p=1720#comment-897</guid>
		<description>Alex, thanks for your post. Love it. You&#039;ve done a better job of breaking down the types of in-group social rules than anybody I&#039;ve read, save maybe law professor Greg Lastowka. 

It&#039;s astonishing how bad the state of the art of dealing with this stuff is in academia, across disciplines. Up until about 10 years ago, most all of &quot;games studies&quot; looked at children&#039;s play, especially folk games like hopscotch. There&#039;s some really good work from the 60s through the 80s, but it really doesn&#039;t carry over into modern gaming well at all.

Then from the 90s on, you get the &quot;cyberspace&quot; and magic circle stuff I go off on - a bunch of work way too informed by sci-fi, and mostly looking at hardcore early adopters (and mostly early 20 somethings adjacent to MIT). You don&#039;t get scholar-players writing from their own experience till about 2007, and we&#039;re all coming at common issues with different handfuls of theories.

There&#039;s some good educational theory about group learning that applies pretty well, and some stuff from organizational psychology, mostly on how WoW guilds teach corporate management, and some very old theory from sociology (mostly &lt;a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erving_Goffman rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Erving Goffman&#039;s stuff&lt;/a&gt;)

So if our stuff seems like under-theorized crap, that&#039;s because when we&#039;re not writing about very narrow cases, it is. Most of my colleagues have the good sense to stick to narrow cases, and they do really good work. I&#039;m trying to do bigger-picture stuff, exactly because we don&#039;t have good theory to cover it, and so a lot of what I&#039;m saying here is half-baked, literally. 

Which is why I blog: I&#039;d rather be wrong here and now, and get called out on it by smart people with more experience, than publish stupid shit in a journal. 

So, thank you, to you, everyone who&#039;s commented on the thread here and on the EVE-O forum - we may end up disagreeing, but I&#039;m a better pilot for getting shot down by veteran capsuleers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, thanks for your post. Love it. You&#8217;ve done a better job of breaking down the types of in-group social rules than anybody I&#8217;ve read, save maybe law professor Greg Lastowka. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s astonishing how bad the state of the art of dealing with this stuff is in academia, across disciplines. Up until about 10 years ago, most all of &#8220;games studies&#8221; looked at children&#8217;s play, especially folk games like hopscotch. There&#8217;s some really good work from the 60s through the 80s, but it really doesn&#8217;t carry over into modern gaming well at all.</p>
<p>Then from the 90s on, you get the &#8220;cyberspace&#8221; and magic circle stuff I go off on &#8211; a bunch of work way too informed by sci-fi, and mostly looking at hardcore early adopters (and mostly early 20 somethings adjacent to MIT). You don&#8217;t get scholar-players writing from their own experience till about 2007, and we&#8217;re all coming at common issues with different handfuls of theories.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s some good educational theory about group learning that applies pretty well, and some stuff from organizational psychology, mostly on how WoW guilds teach corporate management, and some very old theory from sociology (mostly <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erving_Goffman rel="nofollow">Erving Goffman&#8217;s stuff</a>)</p>
<p>So if our stuff seems like under-theorized crap, that&#8217;s because when we&#8217;re not writing about very narrow cases, it is. Most of my colleagues have the good sense to stick to narrow cases, and they do really good work. I&#8217;m trying to do bigger-picture stuff, exactly because we don&#8217;t have good theory to cover it, and so a lot of what I&#8217;m saying here is half-baked, literally. </p>
<p>Which is why I blog: I&#8217;d rather be wrong here and now, and get called out on it by smart people with more experience, than publish stupid shit in a journal. </p>
<p>So, thank you, to you, everyone who&#8217;s commented on the thread here and on the EVE-O forum &#8211; we may end up disagreeing, but I&#8217;m a better pilot for getting shot down by veteran capsuleers.</p>
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